Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 95

Thread: Nationalisation

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,581
    Time Online
    9 d 21 h 24 m

    Nationalisation

    Has the time come to re nationalise our key infrastructure, energy, transport (rail, aviation), water etc.? What are the pros and cons and did ordinary people gain any benefit, long term, from the sale of these national assets? Sensible discussion welcome.
    Alice

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    703
    Time Online
    9 d 5 h 12 m
    Is this a hot topic in Australia?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    no fixed abode
    Posts
    6,927
    Time Online
    53 d 10 h 21 m
    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    did ordinary people gain any benefit, long term, from the sale of these national assets?
    Well I did because I cashed in on most of the privatisations and demutualisations.
    I don't agree with them and voted against them when I had the chance.
    But since I couldn't stop them, and somebody was going to cash in on them, it might as well be me.
    At my fingertips I have a device that can access all the knowledge that mankind has amassed over the millennia.
    I use it to look at pictures of bottoms and have pointless arguments with complete strangers

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    258
    Time Online
    5 d 15 h 42 m
    Quote Originally Posted by BadAttitude View Post
    Is this a hot topic in Australia?

    Is it in the Socialist North?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    It’s certainly topical here. I have often scratched my head about how Labour intend to do it. I assume by offerring a deal to the utility owners and if they don’t accept it passing legislation to unilaterally and with compulsion force the sale of the assets or shares in the companies owning the assets for a price that is set by some formula or just by the Givernment.

    The price would be paid by the issue of tradable Government bonds that pay interest I assume. The Government would then in theory apply the profit from running the utilities to pay the interest in the bonds and over time repay them or refinance them with other issues of bonds.

    Could work and might be fairer or it might result in the utilities being run even more inefficiently with managers such as you see senior University figures now getting obscene salaries. If the profit isn’t there then the interest on the borrowing goes on tax bills. If we force the owners of say the post office to sell I think that presumably will affect our ability to borrow in the bond markets as there is a smack of being a dictatorship about that.

    It will be great fun to find out if Labour do actually get in and with no doubt mean lashings of fees for all sorts of lawyers which is really helpful in an otherwise declining economy. Some of us of course will enjoy other lashings too.



    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    Has the time come to re nationalise our key infrastructure, energy, transport (rail, aviation), water etc.? What are the pros and cons and did ordinary people gain any benefit, long term, from the sale of these national assets? Sensible discussion welcome.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Arkham
    Posts
    119
    Time Online
    39 d 8 m
    My concern is a moral hazard; and peverse incentive systems from arising causing stagnation of economy, and worse yet, stifling upon innovative fields. That said, the poor utilisation of industry by the government has proven to be a substantial stumbling block for the country. Through too short lives they rut, set to waste and wasting.

    However, I would be inclined on balance to vote yes towards nationalisation of services.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    Yes thanks Broadly that seems to be the issue.

    I am old enough to remember that old British Gas.

    Who knows let’s see what happens next time round.

    I suspect it will be a total farce but who am I. Possibly at least ti will be down with some decency at its heart though.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jul 2017
    Location
    UK
    Posts
    75
    Time Online
    3 d 23 h 1 m
    The Department for Transport seems to exercise such tight control over the rail industry that it is difficult to work out where the boundary between private enterprise (and initiative) and state-run railways lies! Not sure which is the better of the two.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,581
    Time Online
    9 d 21 h 24 m
    I read a lot of papers online including numerous ones from the UK and there seems to be fair amount of impetus to re-nationalise a number of basic utilities. I think a problem with the old nationalised industries was that they were run by, predominantly, men who were appointed on the basis of what school they went to and then going to 'Oxbridge'. I suspect that now it would be possible, and desirable, that any re-nationalised utilities would be run by competent people appointed on merit with appropriate governance procedures.
    Alice

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    Intersting. It would be fun to find out who owned and really ran the trains when they were nationalised after the War.

    Bit of a a long time ago that.

    The nice lady lady who pays herself over 450k a year for a sinecure at Bath University went to the illustrious Leicester Uni apparently

    I suspect you will find Oxbridge people of either sex tend to be quite bright.

  11. #11
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,581
    Time Online
    9 d 21 h 24 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post

    I suspect you will find Oxbridge people of either sex tend to be quite bright.
    I don't doubt they are bright in the main and I suspect they are also mainly rich. But bright and rich does not necessarily equip anyone to run a utility such as water. What I am suggesting is that people should be selected on the basis of what they know (of the utility and how to run it) rather than who they know and went to school with. Such people are currently running the country (UK) and to a large extent, Australia. Was any nationalised industry ever run by a woman? I ask for information, it is not a dig at you.
    Alice

  12. #12
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    South East England
    Posts
    115
    Time Online
    1 d 6 h 35 m
    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    I don't doubt they are bright in the main and I suspect they are also mainly rich. But bright and rich does not necessarily equip anyone to run a utility such as water. What I am suggesting is that people should be selected on the basis of what they know (of the utility and how to run it) rather than who they know and went to school with. Such people are currently running the country (UK) and to a large extent, Australia. Was any nationalised industry ever run by a woman? I ask for information, it is not a dig at you.


    You will find that to get entry to Oxbridge or come to that any other worth while University the selection process ensures that you have to be a cut above the average mutt.
    The historically over worked under funded state edukation system plays an important part in underpinning the process and goes some way to ensuring that an above average percentage of entrants to top universities have enjoyed the benefit of private education.
    UKGOV.com is aware of this and has pledged to resolve this issue (so that's sorted then).

    However...
    Positive discrimination in education is a wonderful thing ensuring the working class are kept in their place while the inbred upper class firmly keep grip on the reins.
    In Australia you are very lucky that you don't have this problem as you don't have any top universities to fight over so can remain blissfully dim relying on imported brain while simultaneously exporting the Australian land mass to China boat load at a time to balance those books.
    This is not a dig at you...

    Rather than ask "Was any nationalised industry ever run by a woman?" a wonderful question regarding the rise and fall of UK nationalise industry would be to ask "Were any nationalised industries ever dismantled by a woman?".
    Indeedy-do... The answer to this is "Yes".
    PhilX

  13. #13
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Wales
    Posts
    258
    Time Online
    5 d 15 h 42 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    Yes thanks Broadly that seems to be the issue.

    I am old enough to remember that old British Gas.
    I remember that old British Gas, and I remember the new British Gas too.
    Which one do you think gave estimated bill for years after for a meter they themselves had removed, threatening court action and blocking moving to a new supplier.
    Didn't answer correspondence, didn't fulfill promises to return phone calls, swore the issue was sorted out and the account had been amended on the computer only for it to have made no difference.

    This went on for years, but severely for two.
    Eventually the ombudsman was involved - even they found it far from straightforward - and at long last were not blocked from moving.
    Still occasionally get letters from British Gas demanding fictitious outstanding sums.

    As far as Re Nationalisation goes, absolutely - I'm unable to think of a single instance where service has not deteriorated or prices hiked while sharelolders still get dividends.

    And yes, lets have them run by the practically skilled, with a ground up knowledge of the industry, rather than the Oxbridge cabaal parachuted in.

  14. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    That’s disgracefully offensive.

    I was brought up in a two up two down terraced House went to state schools and got a full grant. I am wealthy because I flogged my guts out working after I graduated.

    QUOTE=alice-in-oz;1252201]I don't doubt they are bright in the main and I suspect they are also mainly rich. But bright and rich does not necessarily equip anyone to run a utility such as water. What I am suggesting is that people should be selected on the basis of what they know (of the utility and how to run it) rather than who they know and went to school with. Such people are currently running the country (UK) and to a large extent, Australia. Was any nationalised industry ever run by a woman? I ask for information, it is not a dig at you. [/QUOTE]

  15. #15
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Arkham
    Posts
    119
    Time Online
    39 d 8 m
    I suspect Alice was attacking/criticising the cronyism and nebulous nexus of graft that is sometimes percieved as being typical of the institution (and to which I am unable to render an opinion regarding the existence of), rather than a condemnation of people who attend the institution as individuals. Furthermore, I also believe she was advocating a more transparent, democratically involved process of meritocracy rather than the reliance of preferential ex parte decision making methodology causing a dilution of the industry.

  16. #16
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    I got my first ever old BG bill and paid it by return . They cashed the cheque and claimed I haven’t paid it. I got abused on the phone for not having paid it etc etc so I don’t follow that argument.

    I have sat on the phone for an hour waiting to deal with my own VAT issues. Actually so as to be able to pay my tax not avoid it. To be fair the people who pick up the phone at HMRC are very helpful and sensible when you eventually get through but I think we would be kidding ourselves tif we think utilities will be sensible and kind when taken back into public ownership.

    I know one lady who works as a consultant for the NHS. Basically she fires people and she gets 1200 a day. It won’t change a thing beyond who gets unfairly overpaid.

    QUOTE=J J Dick;1252204]I remember that old British Gas, and I remember the new British Gas too.
    Which one do you think gave estimated bill for years after for a meter they themselves had removed, threatening court action and blocking moving to a new supplier.
    Didn't answer correspondence, didn't fulfill promises to return phone calls, swore the issue was sorted out and the account had been amended on the computer only for it to have made no difference.

    This went on for years, but severely for two.
    Eventually the ombudsman was involved - even they found it far from straightforward - and at long last were not blocked from moving.
    Still occasionally get letters from British Gas demanding fictitious outstanding sums.

    As far as Re Nationalisation goes, absolutely - I'm unable to think of a single instance where service has not deteriorated or prices hiked while sharelolders still get dividends.

    And yes, lets have them run by the practically skilled, with a ground up knowledge of the industry, rather than the Oxbridge cabaal parachuted in.[/QUOTE]
    Last edited by Burgundy; 29-11-2017 at 13:23.

  17. #17
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,581
    Time Online
    9 d 21 h 24 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Toku View Post
    I suspect Alice was attacking/criticising the cronyism and nebulous nexus of graft that is sometimes percieved as being typical of the institution (and to which I am unable to render an opinion regarding the existence of), rather than a condemnation of people who attend the institution as individuals. Furthermore, I also believe she was advocating a more transparent, democratically involved process of meritocracy rather than the reliance of preferential ex parte decision making methodology causing a dilution of the industry.
    Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to convey. Burgundy, at the time when most of these industries/utilities were first nationally owned/run the number of people from less privileged backgrounds attending Oxbridge was very few and those who attended were mainly rich. It was not a slight at you, personally. You are a little precious about your education though from remarks you have posted before. As to working hard, does a paramedic or a nurse work less hard? Have to deal with life or death problems in an underfunded and badly supported system? They have to do all those things as do our sewerage workers, cleaners, police, firefighters and countless others. Good for you if you have worked hard and made money, but that is not an end in itself for most people, if being rich is the sole measure of success we live in a very narrow and narrowing world. I am sorry indeed if I have caused you personally any offence but I did not say all, I said mainly. It was a general observation which at the times I was referring too was indisputable.
    Alice

  18. #18
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    Arkham
    Posts
    119
    Time Online
    39 d 8 m
    glad I could help

  19. #19
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    Sorry but that isnt terribly compelling as an apolgoy or as an argument. who do you think will run a natiolised train service in the UK?

    To be honest I dont care but I know it will be not very able people who are not that bright who are in the right place at the right moment and they will pay themselves millions whilst the poor old customers and the poor old employees still be at the back.

    By the way I am not precious about my eduacation. More that apparently you dont have any


    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to convey. Burgundy, at the time when most of these industries/utilities were first nationally owned/run the number of people from less privileged backgrounds attending Oxbridge was very few and those who attended were mainly rich. It was not a slight at you, personally. You are a little precious about your education though from remarks you have posted before. As to working hard, does a paramedic or a nurse work less hard? Have to deal with life or death problems in an underfunded and badly supported system? They have to do all those things as do our sewerage workers, cleaners, police, firefighters and countless others. Good for you if you have worked hard and made money, but that is not an end in itself for most people, if being rich is the sole measure of success we live in a very narrow and narrowing world. I am sorry indeed if I have caused you personally any offence but I did not say all, I said mainly. It was a general observation which at the times I was referring too was indisputable.

  20. #20
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    703
    Time Online
    9 d 5 h 12 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    The nice lady lady who pays herself over 450k a year for a sinecure at Bath University went to the illustrious Leicester Uni apparently

    I suspect you will find Oxbridge people of either sex tend to be quite bright.
    Maybe Jezza shout nationalise the unis. Stop them financially abusing the young. Drag places like Oxford into the multicultural 21st century. Have the syllabuses set by a committee at the Dept of Education.

  21. #21
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    703
    Time Online
    9 d 5 h 12 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    Sorry but that isnt terribly compelling as an apolgoy or as an argument.
    Why should anyone have to apologise for having a pop at an elite who have consistently failed the UK?

  22. #22
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    I think a sad loser like you would be mopping up pig shit but for the work of the civil service in the 40 and 50s and of course due to the the huge house price onlfstion that had benefit ed bigots like you.

    And by the way it’s not my fault you can’t read books on foreign languages to quickly deal with your other hugely bigoted commmet.

  23. #23
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    703
    Time Online
    9 d 5 h 12 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    I think a sad loser like you would be mopping up pig shit but for the work of the civil service in the 40 and 50s and of course due to the the huge house price onlfstion that had benefit ed bigots like you.

    And by the way it’s not my fault you can’t read books on foreign languages to quickly deal with your other hugely bigoted commmet.
    Does anyone know what this buffoon is droning on about?

  24. #24
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Location
    Surrey
    Posts
    703
    Time Online
    9 d 5 h 12 m
    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    Yes, that was exactly what I was trying to convey. Burgundy, at the time when most of these industries/utilities were first nationally owned/run the number of people from less privileged backgrounds attending Oxbridge was very few and those who attended were mainly rich. It was not a slight at you, personally. You are a little precious about your education though from remarks you have posted before. As to working hard, does a paramedic or a nurse work less hard? Have to deal with life or death problems in an underfunded and badly supported system? They have to do all those things as do our sewerage workers, cleaners, police, firefighters and countless others. Good for you if you have worked hard and made money, but that is not an end in itself for most people, if being rich is the sole measure of success we live in a very narrow and narrowing world. I am sorry indeed if I have caused you personally any offence but I did not say all, I said mainly. It was a general observation which at the times I was referring too was indisputable.
    Alice, me old chum, if anyone tries to tell you people who went to Oxford are bright and should be running the country just say the magic words - Boris Johnson - that destroys their argument completely.

  25. #25
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Location
    The internet
    Posts
    2,391
    Time Online
    118 d 10 h 1 m
    Gove went there too as did the Maybot.

    I need to work out how to block people again but I am amused that some thick pillock votes for the likes of Bojo and then says he doesn’t like them.

    have a nice time in your camper van going round Europe. What a loser.

  26. #26
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,581
    Time Online
    9 d 21 h 24 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    Sorry but that isnt terribly compelling as an apolgoy or as an argument. who do you think will run a natiolised train service in the UK?

    To be honest I dont care but I know it will be not very able people who are not that bright who are in the right place at the right moment and they will pay themselves millions whilst the poor old customers and the poor old employees still be at the back.

    By the way I am not precious about my eduacation. More that apparently you dont have any
    Unfortunately you seem to be determined to have a fight rather than a discussion and the fact that you now attack me as being uneducated rather proves the point I made about you being precious about your own. So that is the end of any debate with you. I made it clear I was not having a go at you personally but you are determined to take umbrage. That is your choice, not mine. I suggest that with all your vaunted education you attempt to spell the word education correctly. You know nothing about my level of education. It is not something I brag about. Other will judge that I am sure, but I am not the first person you have hurled that particular insult at. If I am being brutally honest, the quality of your posts does not convey a superior level of education to most others on this site.
    Last edited by alice-in-oz; 30-11-2017 at 02:04. Reason: Quote missed
    Alice

  27. #27
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    My place!
    Posts
    110
    Time Online
    6 d 22 h 47 m
    The Universities of Oxford and Cambridge have provided 'leaders' of this country for generations. Until the 1820's, of course, they were the only universities. The Archbishopric of Canterbury is an example of this, George Carey being the only Archbishop since 1316 not to have attended an Oxbridge college. The Conservative party is riddled with old Etonians who, subsequently, attended Oxford. Boris Johnson is a prime example. He read Literae Humaniores at Balliol and appears to be a complete buffoon but don't let his buffoonery fool anyone, behind this is a highly intelligent man and a shrewd politician. Theresa May and Michael Gove, mentioned above, read Geography and English respectively at Oxford after attending, mainly state schools. Both achieved 2nd class honours degrees.

    Since the 2nd world war only Sir Winston Churchill, James Callaghan, John Major and Dr. Gordon Brown have not attended Oxford.

    Atlee - Haileybury - Oxford
    Churchill - Harrow
    Eden - Eton - Oxford
    McMillan - Eton - Oxford
    Douglas Home - Eton - Oxford
    Wilson - Grammar School - Oxford
    Heath - Grammar School - Oxford
    Callaghan - Secondary School
    Thatcher - Grammar School - Oxford
    Major - Grammar School
    Blair - Fettes College - Oxford
    Brown - Grammar School - Edinburgh (Ph.D)
    Cameron - Eton - Oxford

    It's a mistake, usually made by people who didn't go there, to assume that all those attending Oxford or Cambridge are rich or come from privileged backgrounds. I come from a very ordinary family, failed the 11+ and went to a very ordinary Secondary School where I was lucky that I was influenced and supported by inspirational teachers of the subject I was interested in and, eventually, won a Scholarship to Cambridge where I achieved a first!

    So what does qualify us to run the country - I have absolutely no idea but, increasingly, we seem to be seeing members of Parliament with a wide range of different educational experiences from a wide range of different universities - the Speaker, for instance, went to Essex. This can't be a bad thing nor is it a bad thing that we now have more women and members from different ethnic backgrounds in the House of Commons.

    Of course, it's easy to criticise!

  28. #28
    Join Date
    Aug 2017
    Location
    Western Australia
    Posts
    2,581
    Time Online
    9 d 21 h 24 m
    I agree with most of what you say, EliseDome, however, the statistics are against the poor and getting worse.

    https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...s-figures-show
    Alice

  29. #29
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    My place!
    Posts
    110
    Time Online
    6 d 22 h 47 m
    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    I agree with most of what you say, EliseDome, however, the statistics are against the poor and getting worse.

    https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...s-figures-show
    Point taken - although the college I attended was probably not typical of Cambridge - despite the public perception of it! An Interesting photograph too - those students aren't from Oxford or Cambridge - they're wearing Open University dress!!

  30. #30
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    South East England
    Posts
    115
    Time Online
    1 d 6 h 35 m
    Quote Originally Posted by alice-in-oz View Post
    I agree with most of what you say, EliseDome, however, the statistics are against the poor and getting worse.

    https://www.theguardian.com/educatio...s-figures-show

    And it shall remain that way for the foreseeable future.
    Most accept that the early formative years of a child's life are the most important so you don't want the disadvantage of being in the state system during this time.
    Some parents go to great lengths to fund private education and it has its merits.

    We are not all born equal.

  31. #31
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    My place!
    Posts
    110
    Time Online
    6 d 22 h 47 m
    Quote Originally Posted by ow_that_hurt View Post
    Most accept that the early formative years of a child's life are the most important so you don't want the disadvantage of being in the state system during this time.
    I was in the state system - I'm not sure that it did me any harm! There is a strange idea in this country that, if you pay for it, it must be good. In some cases this is true, there are some excellent public schools. Equally there are some excellent state schools.

    As far as Oxford or Cambridge is concerned, I remember talking to someone a few years ago whose daughter had just gone up to University. The mother asked me where I had been to University and when I replied that I had been at Cambridge her retort was something like "Of course, we're only ordinary people, our daughter went to Manchester!"
    The girl got three A's
    at A level to get into Manchester - the same predicted grades would, most probably, have got her an interview at Oxbridge - but she was perceived, certainly by her parents and, possibly, by her school to be 'only ordinary'. Until we get away from that mentality, both in our schools and in the home, it seems, 'ordinary' people, like me, will find themselves an exception in our Oxbridge colleges.

  32. #32
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    no fixed abode
    Posts
    6,927
    Time Online
    53 d 10 h 21 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    It will be great fun to find out if Labour do actually get in and with no doubt mean lashings of fees for all sorts of lawyers which is really helpful in an otherwise declining economy.
    But privatisation must make more work for lawyers?
    Imagine how complex it must be with over 2,000 separate companies running the track, trains and maintenance. The whole rail network is inter-dependant so a failure by one company will involve costs to others. Track failure/maintenance, so other companies trains get delayed or damaged, imagine the complexities of sorting out compensation etc. So all those companies need lawyers. Wheras when it was just one public owned company they didn't need lawyers to sue themselves.
    At my fingertips I have a device that can access all the knowledge that mankind has amassed over the millennia.
    I use it to look at pictures of bottoms and have pointless arguments with complete strangers

  33. #33
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lancashire, as of very recently.
    Posts
    1,859
    Time Online
    172 d 21 h 54 m
    The truth is that most children educated in the state system won't go to Oxbridge, or even to a Russell Group university.

    It has nothing to do with intelligence, and not even much to do with the level of education (though yes, state education is poor and deteriorating, and it's an outrage), and a huge amount to do with aspiration - not the young person's aspiration, but that of those educating them. If going to the top universities isn't put before you as a possibility, you're less likely to do so.

    It's also true (as a generalisation) that most state schools don't have Oxbridge-educated staff, and a sure way to make it easier to get into Oxbridge is to have someone who knows what the colleges want on your application and what they want at interview.

    My (terrible) comprehensive school had three Oxbridge entrants in its entire history. Two thirds of 'em were me and my brother.



    Quote Originally Posted by EliseDomme View Post
    I was in the state system - I'm not sure that it did me any harm! There is a strange idea in this country that, if you pay for it, it must be good. In some cases this is true, there are some excellent public schools. Equally there are some excellent state schools.

    As far as Oxford or Cambridge is concerned, I remember talking to someone a few years ago whose daughter had just gone up to University. The mother asked me where I had been to University and when I replied that I had been at Cambridge her retort was something like "Of course, we're only ordinary people, our daughter went to Manchester!"
    The girl got three A's
    at A level to get into Manchester - the same predicted grades would, most probably, have got her an interview at Oxbridge - but she was perceived, certainly by her parents and, possibly, by her school to be 'only ordinary'. Until we get away from that mentality, both in our schools and in the home, it seems, 'ordinary' people, like me, will find themselves an exception in our Oxbridge colleges.
    Currently being rather well looked after by that well-known Toppy-Monster-Around-Town, Clovis.

  34. #34
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
    Location
    no fixed abode
    Posts
    6,927
    Time Online
    53 d 10 h 21 m
    Quote Originally Posted by Burgundy View Post
    mopping up pig shit
    At least thats a useful job.
    The guys who clean the streets are much more use to me than Boris Johnson
    At my fingertips I have a device that can access all the knowledge that mankind has amassed over the millennia.
    I use it to look at pictures of bottoms and have pointless arguments with complete strangers

  35. #35
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lancashire, as of very recently.
    Posts
    1,859
    Time Online
    172 d 21 h 54 m
    Anglia Ruskin MA, in fact.

    #hoodnerd

    Quote Originally Posted by EliseDomme View Post
    Point taken - although the college I attended was probably not typical of Cambridge - despite the public perception of it! An Interesting photograph too - those students aren't from Oxford or Cambridge - they're wearing Open University dress!!
    Currently being rather well looked after by that well-known Toppy-Monster-Around-Town, Clovis.

  36. #36
    Join Date
    Jan 2016
    Location
    My place!
    Posts
    110
    Time Online
    6 d 22 h 47 m
    Quote Originally Posted by katiebug View Post
    Anglia Ruskin MA, in fact.

    #hoodnerd
    I bow to your superior knowledge!!

  37. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2008
    Location
    Lancashire, as of very recently.
    Posts
    1,859
    Time Online
    172 d 21 h 54 m
    It's not superior knowledge.

    It's very, very, very, sad knowledge indeed.

    (I mean, in my defence, I had to look it up in the book, but on the downside I knew it wasn't OU because one of the things I do know about OU is that they don't graduate wearing squares).

    #hoodgasm.

    Quote Originally Posted by EliseDomme View Post
    I bow to your superior knowledge!!
    Currently being rather well looked after by that well-known Toppy-Monster-Around-Town, Clovis.

  38. #38
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sussex
    Posts
    121
    Time Online
    2 d 2 h 5 m
    Originally Posted by ow_that_hurt
    Most accept that the early formative years of a child's life are the most important so you don't want the disadvantage of being in the state system during this time

    Quote Originally Posted by EliseDomme View Post
    I was in the state system - I'm not sure that it did me any harm! There is a strange idea in this country that, if you pay for it, it must be good. In some cases this is true, there are some excellent public schools. Equally there are some excellent state schools.

    As far as Oxford or Cambridge is concerned, I remember talking to someone a few years ago whose daughter had just gone up to University. The mother asked me where I had been to University and when I replied that I had been at Cambridge her retort was something like "Of course, we're only ordinary people, our daughter went to Manchester!"
    The girl got three A's
    at A level to get into Manchester - the same predicted grades would, most probably, have got her an interview at Oxbridge - but she was perceived, certainly by her parents and, possibly, by her school to be 'only ordinary'. Until we get away from that mentality, both in our schools and in the home, it seems, 'ordinary' people, like me, will find themselves an exception in our Oxbridge colleges.


    Ow that hurt is a bit hung up on state vs private education and needs to get over it.
    I went to a good private school just to the east of Brighton. The standard of education was brilliant, the class sizes were small, teachers were dedicated and there was no lack of anything. You were made to feel special you were supported and they taught you how to learn. Do I think it help me win a place at a recognised University? Yes I do. Did that help my career? Yes it certainly did.

    Ow_that_hurt on the other hand went to a state school and hasn't quite got over it. I don't know why this should be because career wise he has done better than me by a factor of several. Further he has been to a top university in the UK and a couple in the US.
    Come on get over it man.
    Roseanne (his lawful wedded)

  39. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    sussex
    Posts
    121
    Time Online
    2 d 2 h 5 m
    Quote Originally Posted by ow_that_hurt View Post
    And it shall remain that way for the foreseeable future.
    Most accept that the early formative years of a child's life are the most important so you don't want the disadvantage of being in the state system during this time.
    Some parents go to great lengths to fund private education and it has its merits.

    We are not all born equal.
    We are all born equal... just some are more equal than others

  40. #40
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    North West
    Posts
    4,686
    Time Online
    10 d 3 h 4 m
    katiebug said:
    My (terrible) comprehensive school had three Oxbridge entrants in its entire history. Two thirds of 'em were me and my brother. (post 33)
    Anglia Ruskin MA, in fact. (post 35)
    I’m somewhat perturbed and perplexed and it may be that I’m missing something. But, isn’t Anglia Ruskin the former Cambridge School of Art that subsequently, after a number of name changes, became a Polytechnic and since 1992 became known as Anglia University? Aren’t we really referring to two separate institutions? Please enlighten me how, and in what ways Anglia Ruskin is part of ‘Oxbridge’?

    The only connection with the University of Cambridge appears to be that Anglia Ruskin students have reading access to University of Cambridge library but are unable to borrow books. It seems to me that although Anglia Ruskin University has a campus in Cambridge that they are two separate institutions. In a sense its like Oxford Brookes is in Oxford but isn’t Oxford University, or Birmingham City University is in Birmingham but isn’t the University of Birmingham

    Perhaps someone is able to clarify any misunderstanding I may have.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
 
 
 
[Output: 255.76 Kb. compressed to 246.95 Kb. by saving 8.81 Kb. (3.44%)]